- Sustainability - list.sfgreens.org

[Sustain] I'm not trying to start an argument here; just trying to get to the bottom of a few things.
by Ann Garrison 09 Apr '07

09 Apr '07

http://www.siteselection.com/ssinsider/snapshot/sf060810.htm It does seem that Illinois---but not the Sierra Club----bid $80 for this clean coal business, against Ohio and Kentucky, the other members of the Peabody Coal Triangle. And, like I said, I found one town in Illinois where the local Sierra Club was celebrating its choice of clean coal as a global warming solution. One town. Aren't local Sierra Clubs, like PIRG organizations, more or less free to go off on their own locally? And Mary Ratcliff and Ahimsa do seem to disagree with you, John, about this, so you might want to get in touch with them. And, like I said, they seem to be on the right side in the Four Corners. I'm not arguing; I'm really asking people to help me with more info than I have. I think we're all in agreement about this disgusting Apollo Alliance. I'd like some more info as to what to make of the Environmental Defense Fund, which John McCain sent me a fundraising letter for, trying to sell me a canvas bag for a membership. One thing clear to me is that anything with the term "Gen" in it is some sort of federally sponsored evil. ---A.G.

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Re: [Sustain] [Transpo] Excellent Short Audio On The Biofuels Myth
by susan_e_vaughan＠juno.com 08 Apr '07

08 Apr '07

I have seen that Eric has responded to this, but I'm putting my replies below John-Marc's responses, between the =...= Sue -- John-Marc Chandonia <jmc(a)sfgreens.org> wrote: On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 02:01:58AM -0700, Eric Brooks wrote: > We can't get around conservation of energy here. The algae has to be fed > with something. The carbon has to come from somewhere. There is no free > lunch. Hence anything that will give us massive amounts of burnable > fuels, will have massive amounts of impact on the planetary ecosystem. The energy is solar, and the carbon comes from carbon dioxide. The cellulosic ethanol by itself won't be sufficient to replace our current oil needs, but every little bit might make the difference between a gradual "powerdown" in a peak oil scenario and total collapse. Cellulose (stalks) is essentially a free byproduct of growing food crops, and the energy we put into growing them already (for the food) is currently wasted. It's like the difference between letting the sunlight heat up your roof or putting on some solar panels to take advantage of it. =David Fridley is giving his presentation on the myth of biofuels Tuesday during our CC meeting. I'm very familiar with what he says. He reminds us that there is no such thing as a "free byproduct of growing food crops," as the detritus of food crops is essential for the renewal of the soil, especially in a system that of necessity is going to have to rely less and less on artificial fertilizer inputs.= > And as my previous post noted, the players that are getting into this > biofuels game are some of the most evil people on the planet. In a total collapse of civilization, even evil folks wouldn't be able to enjoy their current lifestyle. > They mentioned algae. They dovetailed it and all of the other crops with > genetic engineering. This stuff is all bad news that must be stopped > before it distracts us from taking real action to end the climate > crisis, while we instead wait a precious, deadly, decade or two for some > magic bullet that will allow us all to drive cars. This is a false dichotomy; there's no reason we can't both build mass transit and also develop biofuels. The amount of money necessary for either project is tiny compared to the cost of the war. Biofuels aren't a "distraction" from building mass transit when the public barely knows about them. I think in a poll, the public would prefer mass transit. > Why are we talking about convoluted esoteric ways to get liquid carbon > fuels out of algae, when we could meet our energy and transportation > needs with solar, wind, tidal, wave, etc. and electrified mass transit? Liquid carbon fuels are convenient, and more technologically practical to develop than other high density fuel storage options such as hydrogen or high density batteries. Almost all our existing infrastructure is built on them, so the transition would be much cheaper. =Eric, I think you are very unrealistic about the potential of solar, wind, tidal, and wave. Currently, all those "alternative" forms of energy generation account for less than one percent of the energy that is generated nationally. I think you need to start working the term "carbon tax" into your discussions, as we need to drastically reduce the amount of energy that we are using.= > These are off the shelf, affordable technologies, that can be employed > now; not speculative scientific processes which seek some sleight of > hand with which to defy the basic laws of physics. Which basic laws of physics are you referring to? Biofuels don't violate any of them any more than other energy sources that are ultimately solar powered. =Again, solar and wind and all those others account for less than one percent of our current energy generation.= JMC -- John-Marc Chandonia (jmc(a)sfgreens.org) http://sfgreens.org/ _______________________________________________ Transpo mailing list Transpo(a)sfgreens.org https://list.sfgreens.org/mailman/listinfo/transpo

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Re: [Sustain] [SFGP-A] Fwd: SF Dept. of Environment Giving Away Free Canvass Bags
by Ann Garrison 08 Apr '07

08 Apr '07

I thought you told me that Ahimsa had joined the Board of the local Sierra Club to try to improve it, and that they had nevertheless supported the Lennar development in the shipyard. If I remember that all wrong, I'm glad. And we can all be glad for the adamant opposition John Rizzo has expressed here, re the local Sierra Club. It does not seem like something John Rizzo would support, and he's the Executive Director of the local Sierra Club. ---A. On Apr 8, 2007, at 2:24 PM, SF Bay View wrote: > I don't remember saying this: > Mary R. says they promoted Lennar's development in the shipyard. > Are you sure I said it? Either way, it elicited a nice, unequivocal > denial, so that's good. > > > Ann Garrison wrote: >> May I forward this to Mary Ratcliff and Dr. Ahimsa Porter-Sumchai, >> not to start a fight, but just because they have a very different >> view of the local Sierra Club. I believe Ahimsa joined the Board to >> try to influence it, but don't quote me on that. >> >> I did indeed find a local Sierra chapter on one of the Great Lakes, >> which had chosen "clean coal" as its solution, but you gotta remember >> that's Obama's state. >> >> And, like I said, they seem to be doing very well at working with the >> natives in the Four Corners. >> >> I also just looked up Sierra Club and Kyoto and found Karl Pope's >> article, "The Problem with Kyoto," much of which I agree with: >> >> http://www.sierraclub.org/carlpope/2007/03/trouble-with-kyoto.asp >> >> There seems to be quite a bit of variance between one Sierra Club and >> another, and they're certainly nothing, nothing like that despicable >> Apollo Alliance. >> >> R&R for one'n all---A.G. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 8, 2007, at 1:46 PM, John Rizzo wrote: >> >> >>> Two statements that I must take issue with: >>> >>> >>>> The Sierra Club seems sorta >>>> kinda OK there, in the native Four Corners, but here, Mary R. says >>>> they promoted Lennar's development in the shipyard. >>>> >>> This is a false statement. We absolutely do not support or promote >>> Lennar. >>> >>> >>>> And, in Obama's >>>> Illinois, around the Great Lakes, some local Sierra Club chose >>>> "clean >>>> coal" as their greenhouse gas limiting solution. >>>> >>> I don't know of ANY organization that has put more staff time, >>> volunteer >>> time, and money into fighting coal nationwide than the Sierra Club. >>> This >>> includes Illinois. Here are some Illinois victories against coal: >>> >>> http://www.sierraclub.org/environmentallaw/coal/plantlist.asp# >>> IllinoisTaylorvilleEnergyCenter >>> >>> The Sierra Club spends a lot of resources and effort fighting new >>> coal >>> plants and the myth of "clean coal." Coal is also tied to the Sierra >>> Club's Mercury and Clean Water campaigns. >>> >>> See this web site for a great deal of information about coal and >>> Club >>> efforts: >>> >>> http://www.sierraclub.org/coal/ >>> >>> One of the Sierra Club's campaigns is called "Stopping the Coal >>> Rush" >>> led by the Club's Environmental Law Program. >>> >>> At the web site, be sure to sign the petition to end mountaintop >>> coal >>> mining that is literally destroying Appalachia. >>> >>> John Rizzo >>> >>> PS. For the past three years, the local Bay Area chapter has been >>> expending a lot of staff and volunteer to pass CCA (Tom and >>> Ross), 360 >>> MW renewable energy. It will finally be introduced at the Board of >>> Supervisors on Tuesday. We are also working to get CCA >>> implemented in >>> other cities across California. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> San Francisco Green Party Active Members List >>> To unsubscribe or edit your options, go here: >>> https://list.sfgreens.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/active >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sustainability mailing list >> Sustainability(a)sfgreens.org >> https://list.sfgreens.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainability >> >>

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[Sustain] Sierra Club Is Fighting Against Coal - Not Supporting It
by Eric Brooks 08 Apr '07

08 Apr '07

John Rizzo writes: Two statements that I must take issue with: > The Sierra Club seems sorta >kinda OK there, in the native Four Corners, but here, Mary R. says >they promoted Lennar's development in the shipyard. This is a false statement. We absolutely do not support or promote Lennar. >And, in Obama's >Illinois, around the Great Lakes, some local Sierra Club chose "clean >coal" as their greenhouse gas limiting solution. I don't know of ANY organization that has put more staff time, volunteer time, and money into fighting coal nationwide than the Sierra Club. This includes Illinois. Here are some Illinois victories against coal: http://www.sierraclub.org/environmentallaw/coal/plantlist.asp# IllinoisTaylorvilleEnergyCenter The Sierra Club spends a lot of resources and effort fighting new coal plants and the myth of "clean coal." Coal is also tied to the Sierra Club's Mercury and Clean Water campaigns. See this web site for a great deal of information about coal and Club efforts: http://www.sierraclub.org/coal/ One of the Sierra Club's campaigns is called "Stopping the Coal Rush" led by the Club's Environmental Law Program. At the web site, be sure to sign the petition to end mountaintop coal mining that is literally destroying Appalachia. John Rizzo PS. For the past three years, the local Bay Area chapter has been expending a lot of staff and volunteer to pass CCA (Tom and Ross), 360 MW renewable energy. It will finally be introduced at the Board of Supervisors on Tuesday. We are also working to get CCA implemented in other cities across California. _______________________________________________ San Francisco Green Party Active Members List To unsubscribe or edit your options, go here: https://list.sfgreens.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/active

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[Sustain] VERY Alarming Report About Climate Conference Politics
by Eric Brooks 08 Apr '07

08 Apr '07

Hi all, At the recent global climate conference, some very evil politics went down that led to the released report having major catastrophic impact numbers being removed from the document. To see the AP article go to: http://www.examiner.com/printa-661630~Scientists_Get_Last_Say_in_Climate_St… and don't be fooled by the headline, it bears no relationship whatsoever to the alarming nature of the article... peace, Eric

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[Sustain] More P.O. news
by Dennis Brumm 07 Apr '07

07 Apr '07

From the Financial Network, no less. The GAO report has got 'em worried: http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2007-0407-2.mp3

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Re: [Sustain] [Transpo] Excellent Short Audio On The Biofuels Myth
by Eric Brooks 07 Apr '07

07 Apr '07

I do not believe that even algae will work, and I am certain that cellulosic will not. We can't get around conservation of energy here. The algae has to be fed with something. The carbon has to come from somewhere. There is no free lunch. Hence anything that will give us massive amounts of burnable fuels, will have massive amounts of impact on the planetary ecosystem. And as my previous post noted, the players that are getting into this biofuels game are some of the most evil people on the planet. If they (IDB, Jeb Bush [ethanol council], Kissinger & Associates) are involved in it, it cannot possibly be a good thing, even if it has the potential somehow to be good. And I don't believe that it can in any case. They mentioned algae. They dovetailed it and all of the other crops with genetic engineering. This stuff is all bad news that must be stopped before it distracts us from taking real action to end the climate crisis, while we instead wait a precious, deadly, decade or two for some magic bullet that will allow us all to drive cars. Why are we talking about convoluted esoteric ways to get liquid carbon fuels out of algae, when we could meet our energy and transportation needs with solar, wind, tidal, wave, etc. and electrified mass transit? These are off the shelf, affordable technologies, that can be employed now; not speculative scientific processes which seek some sleight of hand with which to defy the basic laws of physics. peace Eric jmc(a)sfgreens.org wrote: > I think the interview does a good job of addressing problems with > current biofuel sources (corn in the US, sugarcane in Brazil). It > doesn't cover the technologies that are still in R&D or moving from > R&D to production (e.g., algae, cellulosic ethanol). I think some of > the current research has great promise, although of course biofuels > will be only part of a possible renewable energy-based future > (conservation and reduction of sprawl will be more important). > > Interestingly, both Fidel Castro and the Bush-appointed head of the > DOE have come to this same conclusion, as discussed here: > http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/29/2342224 > > Slashdot has pretty good coverage of biofuels, although of course > half their readers are crazy libertarians. Here's more coverage > of the same story as in the radio interview: > http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/02/2144205 > > JMC >

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Re: [Sustain] Continued: Biofuel & Algae Debate
by Michael Poremba 07 Apr '07

07 Apr '07

Wow, excellent to see bio-fuel science being discussed in detail! I hope that you're all planning to attend the bio-fuels presentation coming up this Tuesday evening at the Pacific Energy Center. A scientist from Lawrence Berkeley will be talking about, among other points, the problem of scaling up bio-fuel production. It's interesting to see this problem from a big picture perspective, going beyond discussing the various technical options in front of us, to what it's going to take to make a real difference in today's energy usage patterns. --Michael P. ----- Original Message ---- From: Eric Brooks <> To: Transportation WG <transpo(a)sfgreens.org>; sustainability(a)sfgreens.org Sent: Friday, April 6, 2007 2:45:35 PM Subject: Re: [Sustain] Continued: Biofuel & Algae Debate John-Marc and all, We should definitely discuss all of this in both working groups, however people that can't come to the meetings should also benefit from this exchange. Below are my latest responses in three sections that will be a bit easier to wade through... :) [...snip...]

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[Sustain] Monsanto
by anniegarrison＠mac.com 06 Apr '07

06 Apr '07

Re Monsanto and the Wildlife Habitat Council. Be sure to click on the corporate and conservation members of this grouup now chaired by Monsanto's CEO: http://www.wildlifehc.org/members/index.cfm Wildlife Habitat Council Announces Incoming Chairman of the Board Vanessa C. Kauffman 03/06/07 The Wildlife Habitat Council (WHC) announces Émer ÓBroin, Vice President Environmental Safety, Health and Human Rights, <A target=_blank href="http://monsanto.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=466">Monsanto Company</A>, as the new <A HREF="http://www.wildlifehc.org/about/board_of_directors.cfm">Chairman of the Board of Directors</A>. She assumed the position on March 6, 2007, during the biannual Board meeting, which took place in Concord, California. She is the first woman to lead the organization in its 19 year history. ÓBroin has served on the WHC Board of Directors since 2003 and previously as Secretary-Treasurer. CLICK HERE TO VIEW FULL ARTICLE

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[Sustain] Fwd: [SFGP-A] Fwd: Join Press Conference For Solar-Wind Powered San Francisco - Next Tue, Apr 10, Noon, SF City Hall, Polk St. Side
by Ann Garrison 05 Apr '07

05 Apr '07

I'm lobbying the SF Green Party to include notice---to SIthe Global and Peabody Coal---that we won't be needing any of their filthy coal- fired power from the native Four Corners here on our own little corner of the Southwest Power Grid, or any gas turbine peaker plants in Bayview Hunters Point---as part of this April 10th press conference about San Francisco going for solar and wind. I hope to get to the test site for Mother's Day with Corbin----Ann Begin forwarded message: > From: Eric Brooks <brookse32(a)aim.com> > Date: April 5, 2007 1:06:50 PM PDT > To: anniegarrison(a)mac.com > Subject: Re: [SFGP-A] Fwd: Join Press Conference For Solar-Wind > Powered San Francisco - Next Tue, Apr 10, Noon, SF City Hall, Polk > St. Side > > 50% is just the beginning. We can go on to 100%, hopefully before > 2030. > > Our City just stared a campaign against the 'peakers'. :) > > cheers > > Eric > > anniegarrison(a)mac.com wrote: >> Are you kidding? This is it? What about the peakers in Bayview >> Hunters Point? And, has the fight always been for only 50%? What >> if 75% of San Franciscans don't want to choose PG&E's filthy power? >> >> >> On Apr 5, 2007, at 12:54 PM, Eric Brooks wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Next Tuesday, April 10, 12 Noon, at the Polk Street entrance of >>> San Francisco City Hall - >>> >>> At long last there will be a historic announcement of the >>> introduction of the final implementing legislation for the >>> Community Choice Energy project, to make San Francisco 50% Solar >>> and Wind powered within the next decade! >>> >>> Join Supervisors Tom Ammiano and Ross Mirkarimi, Local Power, Our >>> City, Sierra Club, Greenpeace and many others, as we announce the >>> introduction of this bold new project! >>> >>> DETAILS >>> >>> WHEN: 12 Noon, Tuesday, April 10 >>> >>> WHERE: San Francisco City Hall - Polk Street Side (off Polk >>> between Grove & McAllister - From Civic Center MUNI/BART cross >>> United Nations Plaza to City Hall) >>> >>> WEAR: A sky blue shirt or jacket if you have one - for visual >>> effect (we have some t-shirts available) >>> >>> RSVP: To coordinate with us, if you plan to attend, please reply >>> to this message with 'I'll Be There' in the subject heading and >>> your contact information in the reply. >>> >>> WHY THIS EVENT IS SO IMPORTANT >>> >>> Historic Vote At Last Approaches >>> >>> After many years of hard work by Local Power, Our City, Sierra >>> Club, Greenpeace, The SF Green Party, Supervisors Tom Ammiano and >>> Ross Mirkarimi, and many other organizers, San Francisco's Board >>> of Supervisors is at last only a month away from a final vote on >>> the project plan for Community Choice Energy, which will make San >>> Francisco the most Solar and Wind powered city in the world, >>> running on 50% clean renewable energy, within the next decade. >>> >>> PG&E Could Addict Us To Dirty Energy If We Don't Act Now! >>> >>> The California Public Utilities Commission has given PG&E the >>> opening to beat renewable energy to the punch, and force every >>> city in California to pay for 8 new fossil fuel power plants, and >>> a dangerous 30 year extension of its nuclear power production at >>> Diablo Canyon. PG&E is about to join the Williams company to >>> bring in massive amounts of liquid natural gas for electricity >>> production through a huge pipeline planned to be built from Coos >>> Bay Oregon to Northern California. >>> >>> DETAILS >>> >>> WHEN: 12 Noon, Tuesday, April 10 >>> >>> WHERE: San Francisco City Hall - Polk Street Side (off Polk >>> between Grove & McAllister - From Civic Center MUNI/BART cross >>> United Nations Plaza to City Hall) >>> >>> WEAR: A sky blue shirt or jacket if you have one - for visual >>> effect (we have some t-shirts available) >>> >>> RSVP: To coordinate with us, if you plan to attend, please reply >>> to this message with 'I'll Be There' in the subject heading and >>> your contact information in the reply. >>> >>> See you there! >>> >>> peace, >>> >>> Eric Brooks >>> Campaign Coordinator >>> Our City >>> http://our-city.org >>> 415-756-8844 >>> This update posted by: >>> >>> Our City >>> 1028-A Howard St. >>> San Francisco, CA 94103 >>> 415-756-8844 >>> >>> For more information about Our City campaigns go to: >>> http://www.our-city.org >>> info(a)our-city.org >>> >>> ### >>> >>> If you have joined this list in error and wish to unsubscribe, >>> send a reply to info(a)our-city.org with the word 'Unsubscribe' in >>> the subject line. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> San Francisco Green Party Active Members List >>> To unsubscribe or edit your options, go here: >>> https://list.sfgreens.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/active >> >> =

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